Trapezoidal Arch Among Incas

[Ed Ziomek]

My wife and I took a trip to Peru to investigate the amazing heritage of the 70 tribal cultures of Peru, culminating in what history calls..."the Inca culture".

Of the many many stories I will eventually contribute on these amazing people, the one architectural style that was repeatedly mentioned was..."the trapezoidal arch".

I am submitting three photos of this stone masonry style, hoping the readers can direct me towards other archway stlyes found around the world.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8774/trapezoid15kb.jpg

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/959/trapezoid30xw.jpg

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/1768/trapezoid26om.jpg

Yes, the trapezoidal arch makes the structure more "earthquake proof", but I am not certain that this masonry and building technique is so unique. I believe that this same style may occur elsewhere, such as the Himalayas, or pre-Roman, or Greek, or Turkish structures.

In fact, on a second note, I am theorizing that the culture we call "Inca", may have Nepalese or South Asian ancestries, though this is speculation on my part.

Can the readers of this thread provide me any help on this? Does this architectural style of "trapezoidal arch" appear anywhere else on this globe?

Thanks for any help.

Ed Z

[Ed Ziomek]

The following theories are less, statements of FACT, as opposed to touristy observations, and a request for academic and scientific assistance on puzzling anomalies I have found….

On architectural styles among the ancients, I may have some interesting news to report.

Of course, I was searching for trapezoidal arches, and if they occurred anywhere else in the world, besides among the Incas of Peru.

They do.

I have found trapezoidal frames and archways, with square windows, among the stonework of Tibetan, Nepalese, and Bhutan stone buildings.
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/5154/lhasatemple1zp.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6027/ramochewindows3sl.jpg

But I also found a remarkable trapezoidal architectural building construction-style among the ancient Egyptian, Nepalese/Tibetans, and Mesoamericans.

Trapezoidal Temple Examples from the temple of Rameses and Isis

http://www.atlan.org/copyright/1997/articles/temple2/zoom/fig3a.jpg
http://www.atlan.org/copyright/1997/articles/temple2/zoom/fig3b.jpg
http://www.atlan.org/copyright/1997/articles/temple2/zoom/fig5.jpg

Experts of Mesoamerican ancient structures will recognize this trapezoidal architectural flavor, as appearing in the Americas, whether “Aztec”, “Inca”, or “Maya”. The temple structures at the top of several Aztec pyramids were commonly of this trapezoidal shape.

I next compared a photo I took in Peru, of Incan band members, Member of Rebeldes, the Inca Horn and Drum Band from Agua Calientes, near Machu Picchu...

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4286/rebeldes7yz.jpg

And compared this with an old photo from Lhasa, Tibet… Lost Lhasa, Heinrich Harrer’s Tibet…

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3875/facestibet29jh.jpg

I next found an elephant’s trunk architectural feature, which I believe I have seen on Mesoamerican structures.

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/970/elephantrunk2ll.jpg

Conclusion…based on this circumstantial, touristy group of observations…

Trapezoidal similarities are more than a coincidence of diffusion among intercontinental cultures.

The trapezoidal archway style is defined as “unique” to the Incas.

I disagree. I believe it has major similarities with Egyptian Temple construction, and Tibetan/Nepalese window/door/Temple construction.

In my amateurish opinion, I believe that what history calls the “Inca” is a misnomer, only assigning the entire 5000+ ancestry of the cultural Peruvian landscape - 70+ tribes, to the most modern domineering tribe, the Incas, of 1100 to 1500 AD time frame.

However, if one were to attempt to isolate “who” today, are called Incas, then I think you find virtually an exact match between Tibetan/Nepalese tribes and the mahogany skinned Incas of Peru. High altitude Asia, high altitude South America. Himalayas and Andes, maybe identical cultures.

Let me also mention the uncanny resemblance between colorful fashions, weaving, iconic symbolism, extreme high altitude agriculture and architecture, stone masonry, musical instrumentation, facial cranial features, burying styles, Mandela, and Buddhist theologies.

I think that Spencer Wells, and the IBM/National Geographic Human Genome Project would do well to compare explicit Inca DNA with Tibetan/Nepalese/Bhutan DNA,

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/06/0624_050624_spencerwells.html

which oddly enough, has run into resistance…

Indigenous Peoples Oppose National Geographic & IBM Genetic Research Project that Seeks Indigenous Peoples' DNA

http://www.arena.org.nz/indbiop.htm

My amateur, non-scientific, psuedo- guesswork conclusion…

Although significant Egyptian inluences are evident in Peru (my theories), the people who are called ”Incas” are Nepalese/Tibetan Buddhist…, and trapezoidal arches used in architecture are just one of many clues.

All the similarities demand scientific study and focus, in my opinion. Any thoughts, opinions, references, contacts are appreciated.

Ed Ziomek
Stamford, Connecticut
edward.ziomek@snet.net

[Davydd]

Linking the Incan trapezoidal arches to the Nepales may be a bit of a stretch. We went to another Inca ruins the Inkallajta ruins in Bolivia and there was no such arch. Just rectangular openings with solid stone lintels. Machu Picchu and similar ruins in Cusco, Saqsywaman, and Ollantaytambo, may just have been a local practice of them time maybe by a singular builder's inspiration that spread throughout the valley.

Inkallajta is extremely difficult to get to in the Andes Mountains about 90 miles SE of Cochabamba, Bolivia. You have to climb a very precarious road and cross several washout streams. Once we got there I could count but about 20 other Americans going back over a year in the guest book. Our party alone was 9 people.

See Inkallajta at http://web.mac.com/davydd/iWeb/Site/Incallajta.html and from there my Machu Picchu web site as well.

[Ed Ziomek]

Your tour photos, excellent
http://web.mac.com/davydd/iWeb/Site/Incallajta.html

Your slideshow, excellent...
http://web.mac.com/davydd/iWeb/Site/Incallajta_files/slideshow.html?SlideIndex=18

...and from your own Incallajta photos...trapezoidal window slant somewhat evident...
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/7379/incallataja3gj.jpg

Peruvian Inca -Tibetan, Nepalese similarities...

Don't you see these exact same scenes in every Peruvian, high altitude town?

Tibetan women, or are they Inca from Peru?
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/picture/tibet/namtso-lake/0017372.htm

Spinners, Tibet
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/picture/tibet/rug_factory/0002425.htm

Trapezoidal window frames, Tibet
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/picture/tibet/tashilhunpo/0002456.htm

Davy, thanks for your input, but I am reaffirmed by your own photos...

The Inca of Peru, one of 70 distinct cultures from the last 5000-6000 years, are almost CERTAINLY from Nepal and Tibet. Yes, my theory demands a DNA comparison...I am only going on colorful identical fashions, very similar architectural style, wind charms, spirit catchers, and religious reverence with the Sun and Moon, facial chranial and complexion similarities...

Yes, these are non-scientific circumstantial evidences, but convincing to me, absolutely!

Thank you very much for your valued response, and great slide show!

[Davydd]

Ed,

If your theory is correct would there be a similarity in languages? Quechua is the spoken language of the Inca descendants. It is quite prominent in the small villages of Peru and Bolivia. Many natives cannot speak Spanish. It sounds like a lot of clicking. My daughter-in-law (Irish descent from Massachusetts) can speak it fluently. She was the one in the picture pointing with the old woman in the deserted village that was not quite so deserted as we found out.

[Ed Ziomek]

Davey,

As you know, when a culture becomes dominating, or assimilating, into one or three or 70 other cultures, words are adopted, modified, etc. To say that the present language of the Incas is exactly like the present language of the Tibetan, or Nepalese, or this tribe or that... would be tough. I DO know that the naming conventions are amazingly close, for Tibetan/Nepalese city/temple locations, and that of Peruvian, (in my amateur opinion)

Ramoche, Tibet, and Machu Picchu, Peru
For example, the temple of Ramoche has three trapezoidal windows, almost exactly like Machu Picchu, which might have similar phonetics with each other.

In fact, as I mentioned in other locations, I believe the Egyptian equivalent of Machu Picchu is Maatiu Heteptiu, "those heavenly beings who speak the truth about the Sun God Ra", or ..."Heavenly beings of Ra, who speak the truth".

How curious "Machu Picchu" is in phonetic sounding with "Ra-Moche" of Tibet. Both have 3 trapezoidal windows apparently aligned with the sun's equinoxes.

Egyptian Maatiu Heteptiu...

SECOND DIVISION OF THE TUAT.
II. THE KINGDOM OF KHENTI-AMENTI-OSIRIS ACCORDING TO THE BOOK OF GATES.
To advance into this Division the Boat of AFU-RA must first pass through the Gate which is guarded by the huge serpent

http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ehh/ehh09.htm

"Examining now the beings who are on both banks of the river we see that they fall naturally into two classes, viz., the good and the bad; the former are on the right hand of the god, and the latter on his left, just as saints and sinners are arraigned before God's throne in mediaeval pictures of the Judgment. The good are divided into two classes, "the HETEPTIU who praise RA," and the "MAATIU who dwell in the Tuat" (vol. ii., p. 93). The HETEPTIU are thus called because they made "offerings" (hetepet) to Ra upon earth, and burned incense to him; they also sang praises to RA and worshipped him upon earth, and uttered hekau, or words of power, against APEP, the arch-foe of Ra (vol. ii., p. 94). From this text we see that it was not enough for the followers of Ra to praise him and give him gifts, but that they must also use magical words and formulae in order that Ra's foe may be destroyed; and, because when they were upon earth they made offerings to the Tuat-gods, now that they are themselves in the Tuat and have need of food, Ra declares that offerings made to them shall never fail, and their souls shall never be destroyed. The MAATIU beings have this name given to them because, as the text says, "they spoke Maat," i.e., what is true,"

My question: What was the Incan Machu Picchu all about, if not a celebration of the Inti, the Sun God? And what is the primary festival of the Inca, but Inti Raimi, which curiously has the "Ra" phonetics imbedded?

And what is the underlying focus of much of the early Tibetan and Nepalese theologies, but the Sun and Moon venerations, and Sky spirits? (Am I overstepping here, because I am taking great logical leaps in areas I only observe, not really study)

Excellent question, but I am not a qualified academic responder on this...
I am strongly suggesting that both Queche and Tibetan and Nepalese might have a stronger common relationship to Egyptian/Babylonian, but I strongly urge anyone with more experience and education than myself, to do the DNA comparison study, followed by a language comparison.

[Ed Ziomek]

Almost by accident, while in Peru, a tour guide encouraged my wife and I to visit a Quechua location in the mountains, some place called... Nepala...or something to that effect, which meant...

"Sacred Place".

Possibly we should have your daughter in law go to Tibet/Nepal, to sample the Nepalese language and culture, for comparisons sake, then write an article.

Thoughts?

[Davydd]

Ed,

Our daughter-in-law is an anthropoligist and was work on her doctorate in Bolivia for 1-1/2 years of field work there. She is back in the states. When we see them this August I may show her this thread and get her opinion. There is a possibility she may join an archeology team as the staff anthropologist next year.

[Ed Ziomek]

Davyy ...for your daughter in law....

SATYA-VIDYA article…

http://www.geocities.com/chch_boi2000/Satyavidya.html#EXPLORING%20HINDU%20AND%20NATIVE%20AMERICAN%20CONNCETIONS

EXPLORING HINDU AND NATIVE AMERICAN CONNCETIONS

"When one looks at the Pyramids of the Mayans, one remembers how similar they look to the Borobudur Pyramids of Indonesia and their own parent-structures in the South of India. The questions arises “Since Southern Indians extended their empire as far as Japan, Korea and the South-East of Asia, why could they not have traveled to America as well ?”.

Actually, this is correct. The Native Americans all say that “short, dark race” built their structures and taught them the art of metalwork. Funny enough, "quillay", the Peruvian word for metal is the same as Dravidian and “Amorika” means “Sunken Land” in Dravidian!

Also, Mayan, the Founder of the astrology of the Mayas and also their Architect is also the cognate personality as the Hindu Maya, of whom Southern Indians especially derive their culture from and of whom they also build their pyramidal structures in reverence to, as these are called Gopura or “Mayan” style in India!

Furthermore, these people use the Venus-Calendar of which S. Indians use and also Maya himself is known as planet Venus in Hindu Mythology! Evenything, right down to the scenes of the walls of the Mayan and Incan structures are Hindu Motifs.

Narigon or “Big-Nose” is Ganesha and likewise Elephant-headed, yet there were no Elephants in America - thus also shows India’s connection with the New Land, as also does the Sun-Creator Serpent of these people who is Narayana or Adi-Shesha of Hinduism.

Racially, the American Indians look like the Tibetans, and many of their Tantric-like practices resemble not only those of the Tibetans but those of the S. Indian peoples who are strong in Tantric practices also, and of whom the Tibetans themselves have acquired much of their tradition from via Kashmir and Bengal.

Also the clothes won by the Native Americans is Tibetan-like.

Most popularly, the Hindu Tantric tradition includes Sacrifice of Humans and Animals as well as worship of Divine-Wrath deities (as also with Tibetan or Tantric Buddhism), which lead to Spirituality of a high-degree and also includes ancestor and spirit-worship and use of Horned-Headdresses, Face-Masks, Drums and Damaru’s (Shamanistic Drums) which are all cognate instruments, deities and practices used by Native Americans also which re-enforces this connection and the origin of these people.

This shows the extent of the Vedic Empire which split into two peoples: Dravids (Magicians of the Atharvan- Tantric Tradition) who include the Tibetans, Nepalese, S.Indians, Celts of Europe, Kashmiris and Bengalis, Dionysians, Mongolians, Native-Americans, South-East Asians, Africans, Zoroastrians and Egyptians as well as the Aryans (Orthodox Vedics) such as the Greeks, Romans, Slavs and Scandinavians, Early-Egyptians, Semitic Peoples, N.Indians, Non-Zoroastrian Iranians, Babylonians, Chinese etc.

The Dravids were people of Venus or the Shukra-Brighu tradition, and hence their Pyramidal Styles of Architecture and the Aryans were people of the Angiras or Jupiter Tradition and hence the worship of Zeus,Indra,Ganesha,and Jupiter etc. as well as their Domed-Architectural Traditions we see in N.India, Middle-East,Rome,Greece,Iran and others such lands.

Also, whereas the Dravidian people wear Robed-Clothing of the Magicians, the Aryans would wear Sari-like or Skirt-like clothing types in honor of the Brahmin-Vedic tradition."


*************
Mentioned before on this website….Navajo, Navadjo... Asian origins....

Wake Forest University, Dept. of History, PO Box 7806, Winston-Salem, NC 27109


unknown authors...

http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/tifi.htm
http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/tifii.htm
http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/tifiii.htm
http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/tifiv.htm
http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/tifv.htm
http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/tifvi.htm
http://www.wfu.edu/~cyclone/tifvii.htm