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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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 Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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As for projects in Asia, you can see successful sustainable Urban Renewal in Singapore for starts, "with about 85% of Singaporean households living in public housing, the quality environment achieved in public housing estates contributes greatly to the quality of life of their population"....and it is sustainable!
http://www.ura.gov.sg/skyline/skyline04/skyline04-02/text/p11.html
and apologies in advance for the forum response that is about to occur in response to ROB's quotes:
| Quote: | | displacement of disadvantaged groups. |
...from the liberals you will hear references to groups --The Blacks, The Poor, The Rich, The Disadvantaged, The Less Fortunate. From the Right you will hear references to individuals. On the Left you hear talk of group rights; on the Right, individual rights.
That about sums it up, really: Liberals feel. Liberals care. They are pack animals whose identity is tied up in group dynamics......maybe that is why this concept of Urban Renewal works so well in Asia  Conservatives and Libertarians think -- and, setting aside the theocracy crowd, their identity is centered on the individual.
Liberals feel that their favored groups, have enforceable rights to the property and services of productive individuals. Conservatives (and Libertarians) think that individuals have the right to protect their lives and their property from the plunder of the masses.
| Quote: | | societal sustainability |
...in college you developed a group mentality, but if you look closely at your diploma you will see that they have your individual names on them. Not the name of your school mascot, or of your fraternity or sorority, butyourname. Your group in society's identity is going away. Your recognition and appreciation of your individual identity starts now.
And for all the students, if by the time you reach the age of 30, you do not consider yourself to be a libertarian or a conservative, rush right back to the University as quickly as you can and apply for a faculty position. These people will welcome you with open arms. They will welcome you, that is, so long as you haven't developed an individual identity. Once again you will have to be willing to sign on to the group mentality you embraced during your four years in college. |
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Nonetheless, Donald, I think you seem to have some fairly strong feelings from time to time on various issues.
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1721
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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A long-time friend, a conservative, told me last year what his core belief is. He believes that it is a "law of nature" for every living thing to put its own interests first, always, all the time. "It's just. . .natural." And that it's perfectly natural for man to behave in the same way. He feels, in fact, that everyone is always acting in his own interest, all the time, even when seemingly behaving unselfishly.
How convenient: his philosophy is neatly selected to justify his preferred behavior, which has been less that exemplary toward the underpaid and disrespected employees in the work environment he manages.
It is man's unique ability to move BEYOND a short-sighted, cave-man mentality, that has led to the relatively civilized social environment we know today -- except in places where predatory actions are permitted by those in a position and with the authority to prevent it: Rwanda comes to mind, and, this week, India, where the owners of Coca-Cola bottling plants in rural areas are said to have usurped the water supplies of local farmers. We can do better than to seek only our own good fortune, regardless of the consequences to others. If that is a "group mentality,"
I say "good, let's have more of that." It's a very short way from disregard of others, to the abuse of others.
SDR |
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Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
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| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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well your friend of course has concluded that people do good for others b/c they feel it is good for themselves...if you just play the whole thing out logically his stance does make sense...
if you ever really do do something that is not the best for you, you very well do it b/c you feel it is the right thing to do, and you feel the right thing to do is the best thing to do for you...he does have a point... there is always some level of self interest, not necessarily gain for ones self by way of money or materials, but maybe moral or spiritual or ethical...you always want to be the best you can be in whatever way...
what i would say to him though as a defense is that although we may be a part of nature, nature is not what guides us in our everyday lives... if he feels so compelled to act in the way that nature dictates maybe he should observe a dog humping someone's leg and ponder the question of whether or not he is acting the way nature intends him to act at that moment... |
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1154
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Altruism and various levels of indirect reciprocality are widely exhibited among indivdiuals of many speicies in nature. This is the repeated finding of what is a major area of contemporary scientific research.
Beware of glib and mushy thinking about "what is nature". It takes research and careful analysis and thinking to begin to be accurate about it.
Too often, like SDR's friend, some people will simply project some arbitrary personal or cultural construct of what is philosophically convenient, and call that "nature".
A design professional has a responsibility to do better. |
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