Creationist Perspective on Mitochondrial Eve

[designedexplosion]

The A.nth.ropic Principle

The "a.nth.ro.pic principle" refers to the observation that the p.h.y.sical parameters of l.if.e and the u.niv.erse are astonishingly well tuned.

"G.o.d does not play dice with the u.niv.erse."

- Albert E.ins.tein -

This P.rincipal is based upon the idea that the u.niv.erse is based upon several fundament..al constant.s of ...p.hy.sic.s;.. these p.h..y..sical ......c.o.n.s.t.a.n.ts... describe the way the U.n.i.v.e.rs.e... works. But what has recently been recognized is that any minor variation in these c.ons.tan.ts would make life impossible. The fact that these ....c.o.n.s.t.ants... seem finely t.uned to permit ..l.if.e.., provides a strong indication that there was design behind them; they did not just fall into place out of ...c.h.a.nce... John W.heeler, who first made this idea popular, stated, “A l.ife-giving factor lies at the centre of the whole machinery and design of the w.or.ld.�

The idea that the ..u.n.ive.r..s.e... was.... c..r..e..a..ted... for man.kind has been a central point of p.h.i.l.o.s.o.p.hy... in many c.ul.tu.res... up until the recent past. The notion that the n.a.tu.ral w.or.ld..., including the c.os.mos, was c.rea.ted for man is the very bedrock of many w.or.ld r.e.li..gi..ons.. and world-views, including the J.u.d.aic, Greek, and ....C.h.r.is..ti.a.n... p.hil.oso.ph.ies.... Te.le.olo.gy.. is the study of the evidence for overall design and purpose in n.a.t..ure. It proposes the un.i.ve.r.se.. was ..c.re.a.t.e.d.. for a pur.pose and did not rand.omly l.eap into existence. Te.le.o.lo...gy... has attracted the attention of many prominent ...p..h.ilo.so.ph.ers... and ...th.e.ol.o..g.ia.ns.... such as ...A.u.g.u.s.tin.e...., ..M.ai.m.on.ide.s, .Aq.uinas, N.ewton, and P.aley, all of whom devoted much of their life to this p.hilos.oph.ical notion.

It has only been comparatively recently, however, that there has been recognition that design may also apply to gross features of the u.ni.ve.rse... In 1937, Paul D.irac noted that the number of bary.ons (pro.tons plus neu.trons) in the uni.verse is almost exactly equal to the inverse s.quare of the .....gr.a.vita.tional.... constant, and to the ....s.quare... of the ..a.ge... of the ...u.nive.rse. Di.rac, later in 1961, noted that these relationships would imply a narrow a.ge range of the u.niv.erse during which time l.ife could come forth. S.ta.rs of the right type for sustaining p.la.nets capable of supporting li.fe can only occur during a certain narrow age range for the u.ni.ver.se. Similarly, s.tars of the right type can only form within a narrow range of values for the .....g.rav.ita.tio.nal..... constant. It was this latter interesting fact that led for the search and documentation of other “coincidences� that must occur simultaneously for .....l.ife..... to .....e.x.ist on ......e.a.r.th.

[designedexplosion]

Indications of why design applies to overall features of the u.n..ive.r..se:

1. The ...G.rav.itati.on.al... Coupl.ing .Constant. The for.ce of g.rav.ity determines what s.tars are possible in the un.i.verse. If the ......gra.vit.a.tional...... for.c.e were slightly stronger, s.t.ar formation would proceed more efficiently and all .....s.t.ar.s... would be more m.as.sive than our own. These large ...s.ta.rs... are important in that they manufacture elements that are heavier than i.ron, and they along can disperse elements heavier than ber.yllium to the inter.stellar medium. However, these s..tars also bur.n too ra.pidly ad too inconstantly to maintain l.if.e-.supporting conditions on surrounding plan..ets. More stable and longer lived s-tar-s such as our su.n are required for l-i.fe. On the other hand, if the g-rav.itat-ional constant were too weak, then all s-tar-s would be smaller than the s-.u-n. Although such ......s.-tar-.s..... burn long enough and stable enough to maintain li.fe-supporting plan-.ets, there would be no heavier element-.s formed for the building of ...r-o-ck... plan-.ets upon which ...l-.if.-e.... could occur.

2. The Strong.... N-.uc.le-ar..... F-.o-.rce..... C-o.u-p.ling........ C.on-s.tant. This f.o-r.ce holds together the ...par-ti-cles.... in the... nu-cle.us.... of an... a.t-om. If the strong ....n-ucle-ar... ...f-o-rce were slightly weaker, then multi-...p.-r-ot-on... nu-cl.ei could not form because they would just fly a.pa.rt... due to the ...re.pu-ls.ion... from like ....char.ged.... p.ro.to-ns. ..H.y-dr-og.en... would be the only element in the universe. If on the other hand, the strong ....n.uc-lear... fo-rc.e were slightly greater, then .....n.ucl.ear..... p.art-icles.... would tend to bi-nd ....together more frequently and more firmly. Then ....h.y-dr-o.gen.... would be rare in the u-ni-ve-rse, and elements more ....m-as-si-ve.... than ....i-ro-n... which are necessary for ....l-i-fe.... that are produced from the ....fi-s.s-io-n... of very heavy elements would be insufficient. Either way, l.i-fe becomes... imp.oss.ible.

Similarly, if the ....st.rong.... n.u-cle-ar.... fo.rce... were only increased by 2 percent, then means that ....pro-to.ns.... would never form from ....q.ua.rks. A similar decrease would mean that certain heavy ....e.lem.ents.... essential for li-.fe would be uns.table.

c. The ....W.eak ....N.-ucl-.ear ....F-.o.rce ....C.-ou-.pling.... Co.ns-tant. The weak n.uc.lear... f.or.ce... affects the properties of lep.tons. Lep.-tons are a whole class of elementary pa.rticles (e.g., neut.rinos, e.lec-trons, and p.ho.-tons) that do not participate in strong n.uc-lear reactions; they are not contained within the n.ucl-eus. The most familiar weak ....n.uc-lear.... fo.rc-e... is ra-di.oac.tivity; in particular, the ....b.eta.... de-cay reaction whereupon a n.eu-tron... decays into a p.ro-ton, an electron, and a neutrino. The number of neu.-trons available as the ....u.ni-ve.rse... first cooled after the ....b-.i-.g.... b-a-.ng.... determines the amount of h.eli-um initially produced. If the weak ..n.ucl-ear... force ...co-.up-.ling... constant were slightly larger, then ...n-eu.tr-ons... would de.cay more readily and would therefore be less available. Therefore, little or no h.el-ium would be produced from the ...b.i-.g ...b.an-g, and then heavy elements sufficient for the construction of li-.fe would not be formed. On the other hand, if the weak ...f.or-ce... were too small, then most of the available ...h.yd-rog.en... would have been burned into ..h.el-ium.. during the initial ..e.xp-losion.. producing an over-a.bundance of heavier elements and again, l-if.e would not be possible.

Another res.triction is placed on the weak .n-ucle-ar .for-ce since a certain amount of ...n.eu-tri.nos.. must be formed when a super.nova e.x-plodes to disperse the heavy e.le-ments formed in the outer layers of the ...s.t-ar. If the w.e-ak ...n.uc.lear... force were smaller, then too many neu.tri-nos would be made and would not interact sufficiently with the outer layers of the s-t.ar to sufficiently disperse its contents. On the other hand, if the weak ..n.u-cle.ar... f.or-.ce were larger, then n.eutri.-nos would be trapped inside the s.t-ar and again would be unavailable to disperse its outer layer sufficiently

d. The ...E-lec.tro-.ma.gn-etic.... C.oup.lin.g... C.on.st-ant. This f.orce binds ...el.ec.tro.ns... (a ....lep.-.ton....) to ....p.ro.tons... (a bar.yon) in an ...a.to-m. The characteristics of the ..o.rb-its.. of elec.tro.ns... about ...at.om.-ic... nu.clei determine what ...m.ole.cu-les... can be formed as the a.to.ms... b.ind... to each other. If the .....el.ect.rom.-agn-.etic.... cou-.pli.ng... constant were slightly smaller, then few --e.le.ctrons... would be held in their ...or.-bit... about the ...p.rot.on... If on the other hand, the ......e.le.-ctro-ma.g.n-etic..... ..f.or.ce.... were too large, then a ....p.ro.ton... would not “share� its ....e.lec.trons... with other .pro.tons in other at.oms and m.ole.cules would not form. Either way, the ....mo.lecu.les.... necessary for l.ife could not form.

e. The ...Ratio of ...Pro.tons to ...E.lect.rons. During the first few seconds of the u.niv.erse’s existence, there was a great destruction of anti-ma.tter by m.atter; namely, a.nti-pro.tons were destroyed by ...p.roto.ns..., and ....a.nti-elec.trons.... (posi.trons) were destroyed by ....e.le.ctr.ons. Amazingly, the number of .....e.lec.tro.ns.... and ....p.ro.tons.... that were left over after this destruction almost exactly equaled each other to better than one part in 10^37. If this had not balanced out almost exactly, then there would have been a prevalence of either .....e.lec.tr.ons.... (net negativ.ity) or pro.tons... (n.et.... positivity) and ......e.lec.trom.agn.etism.... would have so overwhelmed ....g.rav.ity.... as a..... f...o.rce...., that the formation of the current ....u.nive.rse... would not have been possible.

f. The ....R.a.tio.... of ......E.lec.tron.... to ...Pro.ton... M.ass. This particular ra.tio determines the characteristics of the o.rb.it of the ...e.lec.tron... around the ...pro-.ton. A ...pr.ot-on... is 1836 times more ...ma-.s-.sive.... than an .....e.lec.tr-on. If the ....e.lec.tron... to ....p.rot.on.... m.ass... were much larger or small, then the necessary ....m.ole.cul.es.... for ...l.ife... could not form and ....l.-ife.... would then be impossible.

g. Expan.sion .Rate of the .U-nive.rse. If the ...e.xpansion.... rate of the ......univ.erse..... were slower, then the whole .....uni.verse..... would have ....collapsed.... back toward ......sin.gular.ity.... again before any s.olar-type ....star.s.... could develop and stabilize to support life. On the other hand, if the ....e.xpa.nsion.... rate of the ....u.-niv.erse.... is too fast, then no ....g.ala.xies.... or ...s.tars... could have condensed from the original elements of the ....e.xp.losion. A.lan ....G.uth... has estimated that this e.xpansion r.ate must be accurate to one part in 10^55!

h. The ...E.nt.ropy.... Level of the ....U/ni...ver/se...... This level affects the degree to which m.assive systems such as ...g.ala.xies... and ..s.t.ars... condense. The r.atio of ...p.hot.-ons.... to ...bar.y.ons.... is an indication of the ....en.t/ropy.... level; our ...u.niv.e/rse.... has a ....r.a.tio.... of about a ...bi.lli.on... to one. Therefore, there are about a ...billion... p.ho.tons for every ...bary.on. If the ....e.ntr.opy... level for the ....u.niv.erse... were slightly larger, then no ....g.ala.ctic.... systems would form (and hence no s.ta.rs). The degree of ....e.n.tropy... (tendency toward disorganization) would pro.hibit the ...en.tro.py... defying increased organization of .....g.al.axy.... or ...s/tar.... for.mation. If the ...en-.tropy... level were slightly smaller, then ..g.alactic.. systems that would form would not form ....s.ta.rs. Either way, the ....u.niv.erse... would be devoid of ....s.t.ars – and hence, ...li.fe.

i. The ....M/a.ss..... of the U.niv.erse. If the ...m.a.ss.. of the ....u.n.ive-rse... were slightly larger, then too much ....d.eu-terium... would form during the cooling of the b.i.g ...b.a.ng. D.eu.teri.um is a powerful ca.tal.yst for subsequent ....n.ucl.ear... reactions in s.tars; the extra ...d.eut.eri.um.... would cause ....s.ta.rs.... to b.urn... too rapidly to sustain ...l.ife... on ....pl.an.ets. On the other hand, if the ....m.a.ss... of the un.ive.rse were slightly smaller, then no ....h.el.iu.m.... would have been generated during the cooling of the b.ig... ..b.a..ng. Without h.eli.um, ....st.a.rs... cannot produce heavy elements necessary for life.

j. The ....Uni.form.ity.... of the ....Un-iv.erse. The ...u.niv.erse... had to be ....c.rea.ted... in a way so as to ensure considerable ....u.nifo.rmity; otherwise, the ....u.niver.se... would consist of a large number of black.... h.oles separated by empty space. Such uniformity is thought to be consistent with a brief period of inflationary .expansion near the time of the ....ori.gin.... of the ....univ.erse.... which spread the early ma.t.ter evenly throughout. On the other hand, if the u.niv.erse were smoother, then the condensations necessary to form ...g.alax.ies..., ...s.ta.rs...., and then ....p.lanets.... would never have come to exist either. Thus, the uniformity of the ....Univ.erse.... is precisely what is necessary to form the proper conditions for life.

k. The S.tab.ility of the P.ro.ton. Each ....pro.ton... contains three q.ua.rks. Q.uar.ks... themselves de.cay into ....anti.qua.rks...., pi.ons, and ....posi.tro.ns... The decay process occurs on the average of only one ....pro/.ton.... per 10^32 years. If that decay rate of the prot.on were higher, then lethal doses of ra.diation would be produced and the consequences for higher, more complicated o.rgan.isms (like man) would be catas/trophic. On the other hand, if the decay process were slower and proto.ns less likely to decay, then less mat.ter would have emerged from the first split second of the cre/ation of the ....u/niv.erse..., and ...l-ife would again be impossible.

l. Fine Structure Constants. These constants relate to each of the four fundamental for.ces: g/ra.vita.tional, strong .nu/clear, weak .nu.clear, and ....ele.ctro.ma/gn.etic.... Fine coupling constants typically yield strict design constraints for the ....u.niv.erse.

m. Velocity of Light. The velocity of ..light... can be expressed as a function of any of the fundamental .fo.rces of .ph.ys.ics, or even as a ...f.un.ction of one of the fine structure .constraints. Therefore, any significant change in the ....v-elo.city.... of... li.ght... would also affect all of these other constraints which again would negate the possibility of .lif.e in the ....u.ni.verse.

n. Nu.clear Energy Levels of 8Be, 12C, and 16O. A.to.mic ....n.uc.leii.... exist at strict energy l.evels. A transition from one energy level to another occurs through the ...e.mi.ssion... or the capture of a ...p.ho.ton that possesses precisely the energy difference between the two ....n.u.clear... energy l.evels. 8Be .....de.cays.... in just 10^-15 second – it is very unstable. Because it is so unstable, it slows down the fusion process. If it were more stable, fu/sion of heavier elements would proceed so rapidly that catastrophic s.tellar explosions would occur. On the other hand, if 8Be were even more unstable, then element production beyond 8Be would not occur and li.fe again would be impossible.

The next element to be considered, 12C, happens to have a nu.clear energy l.evel that is very slightly above the sum of the energy l.evels for 8Be and 4He. Anything other than this precise energy l..evel for 12C would mean there would be insufficient carbon production for life.

Finally, 16O has just the right energy l-evel to prevent all the car.bon from turning into o.x./gen and to facilitate adequate production of 16O for li.fe.

In summary, the ground .state n/uclear .energy levels for 4He, 8Be, 12C, and 16O could not be any higher or lower than they are with respect to each other to more than four percent without yielding a u/n.iverse with insufficient ...o.xy.gen... or ...car-bon... for ...li.fe... to occur.

Interestingly, F.red ..H.oyle, who discovered these remarkable “coincidences,� stated that “a super-intellect has ....mo.n.keyed.... with ....ph/y.sics, as well as with c.hemistry and b.iology.�

[Kevin]

Wow. Organic chemistry works. Whodda thunk it?

And what an amazing challenge to science!

What an amazing arrogance of ignorance, to sit back in an armchair and pick and choose which science to believe - which parts of the web of interconnected functionality it reveals to accept - and which to call "coincidence" or "contradiction - based primarily on specific social interpretations of a fifth-hand translation of a book written many centuries before science as we know it exists.

Science is not just a menu of facts. Science is a way of knowing. If you accept the way of knowing the details of atoms - or all that makes your cellphone work, as we've discussed before - then evolution comes along as part of the package. It's just as "proven" under the same system of knowledge, the same way of knowing.

Like democracy, science isn't perfect - just a heck of a lot better than all the other options.

Like blind faith in rulers, which our societies have generally outgrown, blind faith in old stories leads to dangerous situations for truth and beauty.

[defendthesystem]

It can be clearly seen in these environments, and in s-oci-ety in general, that others are per-se-cuted for their b-el-iefs. Other ex-cuses, reasons and motives for this per-se-cution are always engeneered, but it is always the same m.otive. The e.vidence is always ig.nored in favor of pre-con.ceived vie.ws. Or are some simply af.f.raid of analyzing the e.vi.den.ce? In any case, there is much to be said on this.

Back to the data -

Further indications of why design applies to overall features of the u.n/.ive.r..se:
Anth.ro.pic principle continued:

o. Distance between .star.s The distance between star.s affects the .or-b.its of plan-ets – and even whether they can exist at all. The average distance between ..s.ta.rs in our region of the .g.ala.xy is about 30 .tri.llion miles. If this distance were slightly smaller, .gr.avit.ational interaction among ..s.ta.rs would destabilize plane.t.ary .o.r.bits. On the other hand, if the distance between .s.t.ars were too great, then there would be an insufficient concentration of heavy element deb.ris thrown out by super.nov.ae to produce the rocky plan.ets that produce .li.fe forms.

p. Rate of Luminosity Increase for .S.t.a.rs. The luminosity of .s.t..a.rs affects the surface temperature on plan.e.ts o.r.b.iting those .s.t.a.rs. Small .s.t.ars, like the .sun, settle into stable burning once h.y.d.rogen fusion ignites within their core. However, during this stable phase, .s.t.a.rs undergo a very gradual increase in their luminosity. This gradual increase in luminosity is perfect for the gradual introduction of .l.i.fe forms in a sequence from .p.r.imitive to advanced, upon a plan.et. Naturally, the start date for the introduction of .l.ife forms, and the rate of introduction of subsequent .l.i.fe forms are very critical upon the successful .i.n.t.elligent ...c.r.e.a.tures. If the rate of luminosity were slightly greater, then a run-away greenhouse effect would ensue. However, if the rate of increase in .s.t.ellar luminosity were slightly smaller, then a runaway freezing of the oceans and lakes would occur. Either way, the planet’s temperature would become too hot or too cold for advanced .l.i.fe to generate.

This list is by no means complete, and yet it demonstrates why a growing number of .a.s.t.r.o.n.omers and .c.o.s.m.o.l.o.g.ists agree in the possibility that the .u..n.i.v.e.r..se was not only ...d.i.v.i.n.ely created, but also ...d.i.v.i.n.e.ly ..designed. American .a..s.t.r.o.nomer George .Green.stein said, “As we survey all the .evi.dence, the thought insistently arises that some .su.per.natural agency – or, rather, Agency – must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon ...s.c.i.e.n.t.i.f.ic... proof of the existence of a ...Su.p.r.eme ...Be.ing? Was it ...G..o.d.. who stepped in and so providentially crafted the .c.o.s.mos.. for our benefit?"

The Earth as a Fit Habitat for L.ife. We are hearing much about the discovery of plan..ets encircling distant star..s. Modern cos.m.o.l.o.gy would predict that this would be the case; the same forces that shaped our own sol..ar system to allow it to be able to support l.i.fe, also have shaped other regions of our g.a.la.x.y and the univer.se. For example, we can look out into the univ.erse and see many other spi.ral g.al/a.x.ies just like our own. However, the major difference is that other s.pi.ral g.ala/xies are now, of course, just like ours in all respect, and certainly other plan/etary systems are not just like ours either. There must be many “chance” occurrences in order to make ..l.i.fe... suitable on these distant plan/ets. Without all these occurrences all happening together, then l-i.fe would be impossible.

Most children are probably familiar with the calculations and arguments made by S.cklo.vsky and S.a.gan, who claimed that 0.001 percent of all star..s could have a plan..et capable of supporting advanced l..i.fe. This argument was made many years ago before it became obvious that such could not be the case. Their cal.cula.tions overestimated the range of permissible s.t.ar types and the range of permissible plan.etary distances, in addition to ignoring many other factors that must be calculated into the e.q.uation. These are some of those characteristics that need to be c.a.lcula.ted, all of which are independent variables;

a. Number of s.ta.rs in the plan.e.t.ary system. If there are more than one s.t.ar in the plan-etary system, then t.idal interactions would so disrupt plan-e.tary o-r.b.its as to make them unstable and unfit for advanced l.i-fe; if less than one sta-r then no conditions would be produced for advanced ...l.i.f.e to occur.

b. Parent s.t.ar bi.rth date. If more recent, then the s.ta..r would not yet have reached stable burning phase; if less recent, then the sta-r system would not have enough heavy elements to make e-a.r.then plan-.ets,

c. Parent star age. If older, then the luminosity of the s.-t.ar would change too quickly; if younger, then the luminosity of sta.r would also change too quickly.

d. Parent st.ar distance from the center of its g-al-axy. If farther, then the quantity of heavy e-l-ements would be insufficient for making r-o-c-ky plan.-.ets. If closer, then s-t.e.llar density and hence ra.d.ia.tion would be too great.

e. Parent s-t-ar m-a-ss. If greater, then the luminosity of the st-ar would change too quickly, and the s-t-ar would b.urn too rapidly; if lesser, the range of distances appropriate for l-i.fe would be very narrow. T.i.dal for.ces would disrupt the rotational p.er.iod of a plan-et and “correct” distances for the plan-.et would need to be quite close to the s-ta.r. Also, ultra.v.iolet radia-ti.on would be inadequate for plan.-.ets to make su.g.ars and o.x-y.gen.

f. Surface g-r.av-ity. It the gr-a.vity were stronger on a plan-;et, then the atmosphere would retain too much meth;a.ne and am;m.on.ia and life would be po.isoned; if the gr.av.ity were weaker, then the pla-.n.et’s ..at.m.o.sphere would lose too much water.

g. Distance from parent sta-r. If the distance were farther, then the plan;et would be too cool for a stable water cycle; if the distance were shorter, then the plan,et would be too warm for a stable water cycle.

h. A.xial tilt. If the ax.ial... t.ilt were greater, then s.urface temperature d.iff.erences would be too great; if the.. a.x.ial.. t.ilt were smaller, then surface temperature differences would be too great.

i. Rot.ation period. If the rot.ation period were longer, then diurnal temperature differences would be too great; if the r.otation period were shorter, then at.mo.spheric wind velocities would be too great.

j. Gra.vitational interaction with a mo.on. If the gr.avit.ational interaction with a mo-on were greater, then the t.idal effects on the mo-on, at-mos-phere, and ro.ta.tion period would be too severe; however, if the gra.vita.tional interaction with a moo.n were less, then there would be climatic instabilities.

k. Ma.g.n.etic--- fields. If the ---ma-.g.n.e.tic--- fi.eld around a ---plan;et were stronger, the ----ele;c.trom.ag.netic---- storms would be too severe; however, if the .....ma.g.n.etic.... fi.eld around a plan.et were less strong, then there would be inadequate protection from ...s.te.llar.. radia-tion.

l. Thickness of plan-etary cru-st. If the plan-etary crust thickness were greater, then there would be too much ...o.x.y.gen... transferred from the at-mos.phere to the cru.st; however, if the plan-;et.ary ...cru.st... thickness were thinner, then there would be increased vol.canic and tec.tonic activity.

m. Al.bedo (ratio of reflected light to total light falling upon a planet). If the alb.edo of a plan,et were greater, then runaway ice ages would develop; however, if the al.b.edo were less, then a runaway greenhouse effect would develop.

n. Oxygen to nit.rogen ratio in the atmosphere. If this rate were larger, then advanced li.f.e.... functions would proceed too quickly; if this rate were smaller, then advanced lif.e functions would proceed more slowly.

o. Car-b.on di.oxid.e and water vapor levels in the at.m.os.phere. If these levels were greater, then a runaway greenhouse effect would ensue; however, if these levels were less, then the greenhouse effect would be insufficient and an ice a.ge might develop.

p. O.zone level in the at-mos-p.here. If the o-zone level were greater, then sur-face temperatures would be too low; however, if the o-z.one level were less, then sur.face temperatures would be too high and here would be too much radiation at the surf.ace of the plan..et to support life.

q. At.mosp.heric electric discharge .r.ate. If the at-mos-p-heric electric dis.charge ...ra.te were too high, then there would be too much destruction from fire; if the e-lectric... d.is-charge rate were too small, then there would be too little ....ni.tro.gen... fixed in the atmosphere.

r. O.x.y.gen quantity in the ...at.mos.phere. If the ...o.x.y.gen quantity in the at-mo.sphere were greater, then plan-ts and.. h.y.dro-carbons would burn up too readily; alternatively, if the ....o.x.y.gen... quantity in the ...at.mo-sphere were less, then advanced animals would have too little o-x-y.gen to survive.

s. Seismic activity. If plan-etary seismic activity were greater, then too many life - form.s would be destroyed; however, if seismic activity were less, then nutrients on ocean floors would not be recycled to the continents through tectonic uplift.

As obvious from the above-described anthrop.ic principle, the complex and precisely tuned l.a.ws of the un-i.verse exhibit characteristics of ......i.n..t..el.li.g.e.n.t ...design. The co.s.m.os could not have happened by c.h.a.n.ce. There is a Generator ("G Factor"). Further. There is an Operator (O Factor) or maintainer. This implies that there are forces capable of providing all the energy for the un-i.verse, changing ph.y.s.ical la.w.s, manipulating ga.l.a.x..ies and precisely ordering a s.o..lar ..system. And, there is Time the Destroyer (D Facor). G.-O.-D, the Generator Operator Destroyer exists.

[defendthesystem]

If, after all this small bit of e.vidence, some still insist on pure natural processes, and ..e.v..o-lu-t-i.o-n,... then they are blind, are ignoring the facts, and refuse to allow the data to bring about the birth of .....f.a..i.th. All the data in the world cannot create .....f.a.i..t.h for those who refuse to ....b.e..l.i.e.ve. F.a..i.th is necessary to believe in the ....S.u..p.r.e.m.e... being. All the evidence can be conclusive, as it is, and demonstrate .G..o..d exists. But still if stubborn hard h.eart men refuse to ..b.e.l.ie.ve, then it still is hopeless. There is no hope for such, as they will continue in their ...s.t.u.b.born ignorance until the day they d.i.e, and then face the .S..u.p.r.e.m.e.. being. They will then have no excuse, as they were presented all the evidence and still refused to ..b.e.l..i.e.ve. Even if the d.ead could come back and warn them, still even then they would not b.el..ie.ve. We only have this l.ife to make a decision what we b.e.l.i.eve. You only get one chance.

[defendthesystem]

The wise will be strong with their wisdom and then it will be difficult for f.ools to go against them. F.ools will be w.eak in their thinking, as their ig.no.rance will lead them to dangerous paths. The w.ise will reflect on the in.finity of the c.osmos and gigantic nature of the same and realize it is too much for us to explain, there must be some greater force. F.ools will look at their b.elly and say all they care about is feeding the same. The w.ise may go without food and still be stronger then a bear. F.ools will fail with their b.elly full. The w.ise will succeed even while not eating one bit of food. The food of thought is much stronger then the food of fools. The w.ise have ears to hear but the f.ool shuts his ears to w.isdom. F.ools will w.olly in their f.olly while the w.ise will rise with kings. F.ools will error in their ways while the w.ise will lead nations. F.ools will lead their children to f.olly while the w.ise will lead millions to s.alvation. F.ools will despise the w.ise. The w.ise will pity the f.ools. .Fools will in.herit the wind. The wise will inherit the g.alla.xies. F.ools find their rest in sleep. The wise find their rest in gaining wisdom.

[defendthesystem]

[djswan]

I'm a changed man, this thread has awoken me to the truth.

All hail FSM!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[thebigquestion]

E.vil, Cold, Darkness

Did .G..o.d.. create everything that exists? Does e.vil exist? Did .G.o..d create e.vil?

A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question. "Did .G.o.d.. create everything that exists?" A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"

".G..o.d.. created everything?" The professor asked. "Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If .G..o.d.. created everything; then .G..o.d.. created ev.il. And, since e.vil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then we can assume .G..o.d ..is ..e.v.il."

The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that f.aith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "May I ask you a question, professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The other students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of p.hysics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it ha! s or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 F) is the total absence of heat; and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no Heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use New.ton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe! What happens when there is no light present?"

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does .e.v.il exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily examples of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but .e.v.il.

To this the student replied, "E.vi.l does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. E.vi.l is simply the absence of .G..o.d. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of ...G.o.d... .G.o.d.. did not create .e.v.il.
E.vi.l... is the result of what happens when man does not have ..G..o..d's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name -- A.lbert E.instein

[djswan]

Welcome to the forum, you may have read some of my past post where I ask some big questions that never get answered by the lying religious perverts.

No wonder Einstein, didn't understand the quantum, he couldn't see past his non-existant point. It was sad how he was dismissed in his later years.

I heard Einstein was asked once "Why do men have tits?" and tried to inverse function the questioneers and call him a nuga nuga, as smart as Eiestein was, there was shit he just didn't understand with closed mind.

What do you think of my Einstein story? You sound wise and could help me with my questions.

Would mixing Proctology, Scatology and religion be evil? I would like to look for god where no one has before.

[djswan]

[Richard Haut]

well ... he nearly said it.

it was in a letter to Max Born in 1926, and what Einstein actually wrote was "Quantum mechanics is certainly imposing. But an inner voice tells me that it is not yet the real thing. The theory says a lot, but does not really bring us any closer to the secret of the 'old one'. I, at any rate, am convinced that He does not throw dice."

it is reasonable to assume that, in referring to the 'old one', he meant the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[djswan]

[Antisthenes]

nobody knows and to lie abuses children and show you yourself as a child were abused.


healing is what theists need not debate.

[djswan]

Greeks and thier sensible arguements.

Wouldn't it depend on the type of healing? and how did the hurting happen? What's hurt and what needs to be healed?